Minutes 10th June 2003

Present: Anne Orange (Chair), Michael Grimwood (note-taker), Jane Pickard, Richard Moore, Gerald Slaughter, John Macdonald, Grahame Fearon-Wilson, James Slattery-Kavanagh, Bernie Bulbrook, Councillor Geraldine Evans, Councillor John Whelan, Simon Berlyn, Clover Williams, JeffAvis, Ann Ridley, Jenny Vickers, Nicholas Kitloe (Emmaus), Angela Woodward(Emmaus).

1. Apologies
Jeremy Baker, Janet Grigg, Robert McConnell, Rod Brown, Gabrielle Garton Grimwood, Pat Fisher, Helen O'Brien.

2. Minutes and Matters Arising from the last AGM
2.1. These were accepted. Simon Berlyn asked when it had been decided to hold the AGM in June, in his view there had not been enough notice. It was pointed out that the decision had been taken at the April meeting, was noted in the minutes of that meeting and as a note on the Agenda for the May meeting. The April minutes and May agenda had been circulated in early May.

3. Emmaus
3.1 Anne Orange noted that Simon and Luke Wickings were doing excellent jobs as Secretary and Chair of the welcomed Nicholas Kitloe and Angela Woodward from Emmaus and invited them to speak about the organisation and its planned activities in West Norwood.
3.2 Nicholas Kitloe was grateful for the opportunity to talk about a project which he believed would make a great contribution to South London and to West Norwood in particular. He explained that Emmaus, a secular organisation, had begun in France after the Second World War. It worked to create self supporting, giving communities of which there were now some 400, including ten in England, where Emmaus had started in Cambridge in 1992 (other communities were in Dover, Brighton, St Albans and Greenwich).
3.3 Anyone who is prepared to work to the fullness of their ability can stay in an Emmaus community provided they are not drinking, abusing drugs or being violent - communities are firmly managed. Those living in the communities - "companions" - come from many backgrounds: from the street; from hospitals; some 25% from the armed services. They are offered a home and receive board, lodging (all individual en-suite rooms), clothing and pocket money. None claim state benefits. Surpluses generated by the work of communities are given away to good causes.
3.4. Each community is an independent trust. Of course, it was necessary to be realistic. All businesses can have ups and downs and with a workforce that could come and go at will it might take a long time for a community to generate a surplus. In West Norwood the intention would be to develop a recycling business for furniture, bric a brac and also repair of white goods.
3.5 The site being developed by Emmaus included 2 shops with frontages on Knights Hill and a factory with entrance on Beadman Street. The project would cost some £3m of which £1.5 had been raised and spent so far. Emmaus would welcome help including introductions and guidance in the area. The organisation was very concerned to develop local roots, to gain local understanding and keen to ensure that people concerned about its activities should be directed to come to Emmaus to express those concerns and seek answers to questions. On 27 July there would be an event at St Luke's church when companions from Emmaus Brighton would come to perform. Anne Orange mentioned that she had been to other Emmaus events and been very impressed by hearing Emmaus companions speak. She invited questions and comments.
3.6 John MacDonald said that local businesses with which he was in contact in the immediately surrounding area were worried (he confirmed in response to a question from Nicholas that he was not, himself, in business in that area). They had not received any information about Emmaus, were concerned about possible increases in break-ins or other crime. He was sceptical about Emmaus residents not drinking, when the area had many pubs; he wondered what effort was made to keep in touch with people who left Emmaus communities; and what happened when residents had to leave for breaking the rules. He thought the fear in the local community created the risk that the project would fail miserably.
3.7 Nicholas mentioned that he had personally twice leafleted every doorway within 500 yards of the Emmaus site and had invited people to various events. Plainly this had failed to achieve the desired objective and he apologised for that. Responding to other points made by John, Nicholas noted that it would be hard to find any site in London that was not quite close to a pub, but by no means all Emmaus residents had drink problems and Emmaus was firm in enforcing its rules. People could leave the community whenever they wished. Emmaus tried to be helpful to those who could not stick to the rules. Of course Emmaus sometimes had problems with people who could not stick to the rules. The sorts of concern John had voiced were expressed at the start of every community but the problems envisaged had not materialised.
3.8 Grahame Fearon-Wilson asked about the likely size of the community and the number of people it might help. Angela Woodward said that it was expected to be six or seven at first, rising slowly to about 30. On average residents stayed about 4 months so about one hundred people might be helped over the course of a year.
3.9 Richard Moore said that he knew about Emmaus work in Manchester and while he understood a lot of what Emmaus did he had some questions. At a recent Lambeth Community Safey meeting concern had been expressed (supported by the Borough police commander) about St Mungo's, some 20% of whose residents were problematic. He wondered how Emmaus would deal with people when things did go wrong. He also doubted, given the presence of L'Arche and other organisations in the area, whether there was enough support to go round. Nicholas thought that St Mungo's was a fine organisation but Emmaus was distinct from it. Whatever problems residents came from to Emmaus, they would not be a problem while Emmaus residents. They would be fully occupied, engaged in a common purpose and so self disciplined. There would also be a very strong management team to deal with issues. Of course there were many people with problems in south London and Emmaus would not solve this, but it would help.
3.10. John MacDonald thought that for Emmaus to venture into central London would be completely different to any other community, though Nicholas was able to point out that the nearest Emmaus community was in Greenwich. John also thought that there should be a project worker in place in West Norwood, Angela confirmed that was her role.
3.11. In response to another question, Nicholas explained that Emmaus had begun to look for premises in Lambeth five years ago in Stockwell. While some 100 sites had been looked at, West Norwood was only the second that was affordable and offered the right combination of retail/residential/industrial uses. The site had been purchased, some old buildings demolished and the project was in the midst of technical design. It was hoped to open in 15 months.
3.12. Bernie Bullbrook thought that perception would be Emmaus main problem. The area had many problems and he thought that unless Emmaus were careful they risked a backlash. Nicholas said that he was filled with caution, but not trepidation. All the points raised merited careful consideration. Some Emmaus had John Whelan added that in his view the quality of management was the key issue. Relationships with the community needed to be worked on. He understood and supported Emmaus' aims.
3.13. James Slattery-Kavanagh said that so far the Emmaus representatives had heard many adverse comments and would have detected a lot of caution. He had seen a presentation made to the Rotary Club and, as a local business, had been contacted by Emmaus and received a newsletter. Michael Grimwood added that, bearing in mind that the community would not open for 15 months, the fact that workers were already in the area making links the community seemed a model of good practice compared to the sort of consultation that accompanied many other initiatives. Grahame Fearon-Wilson added that he thought this was a tolerant area. He did not believe that people would have problems with Emmaus, nor that there would be a groundswell against it.
3.14. John MacDonald said that people in the area were frightened about shootings, drugs and alcohol problems. He acknowledged that some of his concerns had been answered but others had not. Richard Moore supported aspects of what John had said but wondered if there was a way forward through involvement of local people in a management committee for the community. He thought NAG members knew about many local issues and that there was scope for NAG to act as a 2 way channel of communication. Nicholas explained that the trustees of the community would be drawn from south London. There were formal or informal links to many local bodies and, nearer the opening, there would be a meeting for representatives of local organisations. Emmaus would try to work out a structure that would work best.
3.15 Anne Orange thanked Nicholas and Angela on behalf of NAG for coming to talk about Emmaus and for listening to the concerns raised.

4. Officers Reports
4.1. Chair: Anne Orange noted that NAG was smaller than hitherto and should perhaps consider whether it was still viable, what its role and focus ought to be in the light of the existence of other local bodies such as the Forum and area Committee. So, it was good that NAG was considering becoming an amenity group. Events like the Emmaus presentation were good and useful. The meeting expressed thanks to Anne for her work as Chair.
4.2. Vice-Chair: Gerry Slaughter drew attention to the continuing concern of his fellow Vice-Chair, Jeremy Galloway, about the lack of parking spaces and continued misuse of Waylett Place, concerns shared by many others. A key question was what could the Council do.
4.3. Treasurer: Under Grahame Fearon Wilson's prudent stewardship NAG's balance had risen over the year to £1,975, up £3. Although subscriptions had diminished, there had been very few expenses - no newsletter, for example. He suggested a newsletter should be produced.
4.4. Secretary: Michael Grimwood reported that Agendas had been produced and meetings minuted.
4.5. Joint Secretary/Newsletter editor: Jane Pickard reported while she had not recently had time to produce a newsletter she hoped to be able to organise this in the autumn.
4.6. Membership Secretary: Helen O'Brien, though unable to attend had provided the following report
"We currently have a membership list of 60 people. 16 of these receive free membership as a result of entering the gardens competitions. Realistically this could significantly reduce in the near future as only 30 members could be described as active or having shown a recent interest in the Group. 26 members receive their agenda and minutes by hand and 26 by email. I have had no response to my emails advising people when their subscription is due. This is probably because minutes are delivered automatically via Virtual Norwood for those who subscribed to this system. Thanks to James Slattery-Kavanagh this automated system saves much time and effort each month. Many thanks also to our distributors for delivering the paperwork. Also many thanks to Jeremy Galloway for our photocopies and of course to Tina his secretary for copying and collating them each month."
4.7. Transport: Rod Brown, Rod had not been able to attend and there was no report.
4.8 Environment: John MacDonald reported that Waylett Place remained a dumping ground. Fencing had been cut down. While Councillors Clare and John Whelan had worked hard on the matter the issue was one that the Council had, in many ways, ignored. John was talking to Councillor Clare Whelan about other problems. Dumping and graffiti were widespread. Councillor John Whelan noted that despite some grudging praise there was much criticism and suggested NAG should invite the executive member for environment to a meeting for a discussion. This was formally proposed by Richard Moore, seconded by Grahame Fearon Wilson and agreed. Subjects for discussion should include Waylett Place and other environment issues.
4.9. Business: Jeremy Galloway, Jeremy had not been able to attend and there was no report.
4.10. Crime and Safety: Bernie Bullbrook reported that the new sector inspector had established himself and was keen to take up local issues. The Superintendent at Streatham was quite new but would be leaving. There had been problems with local home beat officers moving on or being on sick leave. The team was getting back to strength but it would take a while for them to learn the area. Officers did get taken away for central London duties. Crime figures mainly showed falls though vehicle crime was up and gun crime was a concern. Many crack houses had been raided. There were still crime hot spots and the CCTV was not as effective as it might be. The Lambeth Crime Prevention Panel was looking for funding for initiatives and a Crime and Safety committee had been set up with money from the Communities Against Drugs (CAD) programme. John MacDonald interjected that in his view the cop shop was a waste of time.

5. Election of Officers
5.1. For the election of Chair, Anne Orange handed over chairing the meeting to Michael Grimwood. Nominations were invited. Anne Orange was proposed by James Slattery-Kavanagh and seconded by Gerry Slaughter and Jane Pickard. Anne said that she was only prepared to continue if the group was more focussed on action. She appealed for ideas for good things the group could do. Grahame Fearon-Wilson expressed broad agreement with these sentiments. Jane Pickard reminded members that there were examples of this happening such as the Gardens competition and the involvement with St Luke's Gardens. Anne was elected with none opposed and resumed chairing the meeting.
5.2 The current vice-chairs Jeremy Galloway and Gerry Slaughter were both proposed by Anne Orange and seconded by Michael Grimwood and elected unopposed.
5.3. The secretaries Jane Pickard and Michael Grimwood were both proposed, seconded and elected unopposed.
5.4. Treasurer: Graham Fearon-Wilson was proposed by James Slattery-Kavanagh, seconded by Gerry Slaughter and elected unopposed.
5.5 Newsletter Editor: Jane Pickard was proposed by Anne Orange, seconded by Richard Moore and elected unopposed.
5.6 Membership Secretary: Helen O'Brien was proposed by Richard Moore, seconded by Jane Pickard and elected unopposed.
5.7. Transport: Rod Brown had said that he did not wish to continue. There being no other candidates the post remained vacant.
5.8 Environment: John MacDonald said that he did not wish to continue. There being no other candidates the post remained vacant.
5.9. Business: Jeremy Galloway, in his absence, was proposed, seconded and elected unopposed.
5.10. Crime and Safety: Bernie Bullbrook was proposed, seconded and elected unopposed.

6. Any Other Business
6.1. Constitution. It was recognised that it had been intended to discuss NAG's future constitution at the AGM but the planned preliminary discussion at the May meeting had not been possible. It was agreed that any proposal for a change of constitution should be pursued through and EGM. A suggestion was made that NAG should have a pensioner representative. It was agreed that this should be considered at the proposed EGM along with other constitutional change.
6.2 Time of Meetings. A motion was proposed seconded and carried that future ordinary NAG meetings should start at 7.30.
6.3 Electricity sub-station. Councillor Gerry Evans mentioned that an electricity sub-station opposite the foot of St Julians Farm road was rather an eyesore. Those responsible for the site were willing to let a local group make it more attractive, planting it up etc. She wondered if NAG might wish to pursue this. Richard Moore suggested that the Lambeth Horticultural Society might take it on. [Secretary's note the following was agreed at the Norwood Area Committee's June meeting: that the Committee "Allocates £300 as a contribution towards the cost of scheme development and advertisement, and plants to be sited at the Electricity Sub-Station on Knight's Hill, at the bottom of St. Julian's Farm Road, pending agreement with local group/s and/or schools willing to maintain a green space in the forecourt, and Freedom Group as managing agents. The committee thanks Lambeth Horticultural Society, pending its formal committee approval, for it's offer to source plants and materials for the scheme and to do the planting"].
6.4. Proposed Meeting with Metropolitan Police Service, Metropolitan Police Authority and Lambeth Council. As a result of concern about crimes in the area Richard Moore had been in contact with the Borough Commander, an MPA member and a representative of the Council Community Safety team who would, provisionally be prepared to come to a NAG organised meeting, for which free publicity would be available. Funding to book the church hal in Chatsworth Way was also available. He said that Councillor John Whelan had assured him of his support. Councillor John Whelan said that the council would in principle wish to support such a meeting but it would need to be well thought through and the approach to council officers and members ought to be made formally by NAG.
6.5 To take the proposal forward Richard would need NAG's approval in principle in order to firm up on a date. An agenda would then need to be agreed. After some discussion it was agreed that NAG should discuss the proposed agenda at its next meeting. In the meantime NAG was prepared to agree Richard making firmer arrangements for a date, aiming for September. Michael Grimwood suggested that it would be sensible to ensure that the agenda items were also agreed well in advance with other participants, so they would be in a position to properly respond to concerns. John MacDonald thought this would be inappropriate and left the meeting.